Horus and Jesus?

[freetibet]

So as many of you know, the zeitgeist movement claims that Jesus is a myth based on the Egyption God Horus.

Well I just looked up Horus, and there are like no similiarities at all. One is half falcon half man and the god of the sky. The other was killed for our sins.

Now tell me... how do you get Horus=Jesus out of that?

[freetibet]

Well it seemed like half the people on this site believe that crap.

though half the site is about 5 people now...

If you do a search for zeitgeist you'll see that it is mentioned in at least 17 other threads. It not like i'm bringing up a topic that hasn't been mentioned before. I'm just the first to make a topic about how it is flawed and not the best thing mankind has ever made.

[GhostExodus]

The thing is all thru out history, people have been trying to prove and make up excuses why Jesus is a fake and that Christianity is just a self righteous religion. However, by my knowledge there is no "religion" that imposes the command to deny ones pleasures. That the road to salvation and eternal life was walked by maryres who were nailed to crosses, beheaded, given to lions, stoned, torn apart by others, nailed to a cross upside down, heh...

Yeah, most religions are self-pleasure based.
Christianity teaches that you must deny your human impulses. Also the standards that we try to hit are high. They are not human. But can be achieved none the less.

If lusting after a woman is the equal to having sex with her, which is fornication, adultery, and hating someone is equal to murdering someone, a human couldnt not write that commandment. To write for the world to achieve, one must achieve that same commandment.

People desire pleasure. But the bible says our pleasure is not in this life. That we are not to be self exhaulted. But be servants.

Thats denying our natural ego. The fact is, if i wanted to create a religion, i'd want it to be catchy so everyone would get into it. Christianity isnt catchy. Its hard to live, thats why so many fall and then live in their fallen state and show the world around them the hypocracy. Its confusing. But Christianity isnt confusing at all. Those indaviduals carry a spirit about them, they themselves are confused and it spreads like cancer, confusing others.

[WeirdD]

...Necro..

[GhostExodus]

how was that necro?

[BlitzNation]

The similarities between Horus and Jesus arise in their similar stories. Born to a virgin mother on the 25th of December, meeting prophecies laid by earlier peoples, remaining dormant for three days and then being resurrected.

Jesus, while most likely being based on a number of prophets from the time, one more influential than others was mixed with the traditional sun-god story like Horus when put into text. So it isn't an attack on Jesus Christ so much as the bible itself, and basic history and research can verify the bible as a book written by ordinary people and very often edited. So no new information whatsoever.

Don't discredit something just because it's embraced by the zeitgeist movement. Zeitgeist tends to take good factual points and then attribute wild illogical conclusions to them. The initial facts can be quite valid.

[GhostExodus]

Nowhere in any documentation does it say he was born on December 25th heh., the date which we celebrate christmas aka St. Nicolas is a man made tradition which was brought over here from the Europeans who migrated here to "america". He who was a Christian Bishop back in the 16th century. Also in history informs us that pagans used December 25th to honor the birthday of the sun. As far as Jesus' birthday, in judea in december, the weather is quite cold and rains quite frequently. The actual scriptures tell us that that the Shepard's were tending to flocks in the fields by night. Night fall temperature as compared to day is lesser.

"quote"
Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.

"quote"

First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night"

King James in 1604 had the entire bible translated into english directly from hebrew and greek since all other translations were poorly translated. New translation was created under very strict conditions * see bottom of page*

The bible itself gives an account for prophets and if people actually would read the bible from front to back, in the old testimate itself gives account in Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Saying that Jesus the Christ/Messiah will come after the forerunner which was John the Baptist. Then in Acts: 13:25 John the baptist himself says:
And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think you that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there comes one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

There is a difference as far as the east is to the west between Horus and Jesus. Horus
who has the head of a falcon body of a man was created by the egyptions. Just like the egyptions who were led from slavery by moses, when moses was away, they all ***ted their gold and created a golden calf and worshipped it as the god who delivered them from egypt. People like a god they and paint. They can widdle out of wood, or worship a statue. Seeing is believing in the eyes of man. Not to meantion that the ancient egyptions were pagan. Which is exactly the opposite to the doctrine of Jesus the Christ.

Use this reference to learn about horus: http://www.crystalinks.com/horus.html

Compare the duties of each deity and find out that they have absolutely nothing to do with each other at all. A holy trinity v.s. Horus, half man half falcon, Anubis, half man half jackal, not even the names themselves in the ancient greek cross references compare to be any equivalent. The bible itself meantions nothing about acknowledging the moon and the sun, the stars or anything other than what is actually written.

Christianity gives account for walking on water, healing diseases, raising the dead back to life, healing deafness, healing loss of sight, and all the mighty men (humans) who were empowered by an unseen force who gave them super natural abilities and gifts to obtain tasks that were far greater than ones own personal adjenda.


***=KING JAMES =***
Fifteen general rules were advanced for the guidance of the translators:

1. The ordinary Bible read in the Church, commonly called the Bishops Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the Truth of the original will permit.

2. The names of the Prophets, and the Holy Writers, with the other Names of the Text, to be retained, as nigh as may be, accordingly as they were vulgarly used.

3. The Old Ecclesiastical Words to be kept, viz. the Word Church not to be translated Congregation &c.

4. When a Word hath divers Significations, that to be kept which hath been most commonly used by the most of the Ancient Fathers, being agreeable to the Propriety of the Place, and the Analogy of the Faith.

5. The Division of the Chapters to be altered, either not at all, or as little as may be, if Necessity so require.

6. No Marginal Notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek Words, which cannot without some circumlocution, so briefly and fitly be expressed in the Text.

7. Such Quotations of Places to be marginally set down as shall serve for the fit Reference of one Scripture to another.

8. Every particular Man of each Company, to take the same Chapter or Chapters, and having translated or amended them severally by himself, where he thinketh good, all to meet together, confer what they have done, and agree for their Parts what shall stand.

9. As any one Company hath dispatched any one Book in this Manner they shall send it to the rest, to be considered of seriously and judiciously, for His Majesty is very careful in this Point.

10. If any Company, upon the Review of the Book so sent, doubt or differ upon any Place, to send them Word thereof; note the Place, and withal send the Reasons, to which if they consent not, the Difference to be compounded at the general Meeting, which is to be of the chief Persons of each Company, at the end of the Work.

11. When any Place of special Obscurity is doubted of, Letters to be directed by Authority, to send to any Learned Man in the Land, for his Judgement of such a Place.

12. Letters to be sent from every Bishop to the rest of his Clergy, admonishing them of this Translation in hand; and to move and charge as many skilful in the Tongues; and having taken pains in that kind, to send his particular Observations to the Company, either at Westminster, Camb*****, or Oxford.

13. The Directors in each Company, to be the Deans of Westminster, and Chester for that Place; and the King's Professors in the Hebrew or Greek in either University.

14. These translations to be used when they agree better with the Text than the Bishops Bible: Tyndale's, Matthew's, Coverdale's, Whitchurch's, Geneva.

15. Besides the said Directors before mentioned, three or four of the most Ancient and Grave Divines, in either of the Universities, not employed in Translating, to be assigned by the vice-Chancellor, upon Conference with the rest of the Heads, to be Overseers of the Translations as well Hebrew as Greek, for the better observation of the 4th Rule above specified.

[Deetinator]

Owned.....

[Dr Cantaloupe]

I have seen this argument used many times for trying to diprove Jesus' existence. The fact of the matter is that even if there was an ACTUALL Jesus Christ he was not the son of God. Christianity is a religion, i believe, based on what pretty much every other religion is based off of. Power. People will always want to control others. Religion is an extre***y effective way of controlling others and contorting their minds in the attempt to make them act as you want them too. Respectfully.

[GhostExodus]

That you just stated your opinion. Thats an opinion versus ancient scrolls dating back over 2000 years. Not to meantion Christianity has flaws in it because of people. People have flaws there for when they try to teach something they don't live, it becomes hypocrisy.
And the scrolls detail Jesus "the" Christ as the Son of the living God.
Also by my knowledge is the only "religion" that teaches self denial and sacrifice. (not human sacrifices) To disown humanistic tenancies and human understanding. Letting go of your own will and obtaining a will that you would not willfully choose on your own if you had'nt come to the knowledge of His salvation.

How would you obtain any control if your religion teaches that if you look at a woman and lust after her (thats a natural human condition) that you have already commited adultery in your heart. To give and not expect anything to come back. In some cases to live off of absolutely nothing but the clothes on your back, having a super natural unseen force supply the needs to survive?

Since we were born in this age, we can only turn to what science can rationalize for us. Physics says what goes up must come down, but if someone was to walk on water, what would that tell physics? The bible describes the power of God that there is no force greater than Him, not even gravity itself. But since we were not there as eye witnesses, like many that were written in the new testimate, we can only speculate in our own imagination. Or in actually reading the bible, and doing what it says to TEST whether its true or false would be a more respectable approach.
Other than that science's theories change all the time. Nothing is set in stone.

And here is a book that is stating that there are many religions, many people who widdle their own god's out of wood, sculpt them out of clay, gold, silver bronze, etc. And many preaching Christianity but they are all false teachers manipulating you to give them money, etc, and then then that God Himself saying that He never had a beginning, never has an end, is alive yesterday today and forever. And that He is above all other Gods. And that He seperates Himself from religion. Now i'd test the literature first before I'd give my opinion. ;)

[Dr Cantaloupe]

I concede and take back my last statement you seem to have a great passion for religion. I admit it was pretty stupid of me just to state an opinion.

[pyro_davey]

people do use religion for power though

[GhostExodus]

You are absolutely right. I couldn't disagree at all. Even from my own personal experience i'v seen people currupt it all so they can gain money, fame and power.

Like seen here in the 1500-1600's (the great reformation)
At this point in history there is only one church in the West -- the Catholic Church -- under the leadership of the Pope in Rome. The Church had been for some time a notoriously corrupt institution plagued by internal power struggles (at one point in the late 1300s and 1400s there was a power struggle within the church resulting in not one, but three Popes!), and Popes and Cardinals often lived more like Kings or Emperors than spiritual leaders. Popes claimed temporal (or political) power as well as spiritual power, commanded armies, made political alliances and enemies, and waged war. Simony (the selling of church offices) and nepotism (favoritism based on family relationships) were rampant. Clearly, if the Pope was concentrating on these worldly issues, there wasn't much time left for caring for the souls of the faithful! The corruption of the Church was well known, and several attempts had been made to reform the Church, but none of them was successful until Martin Luther in the early 1500s.

The dictionary defines the word reform as 'to make better', or 'to remove faults and defects'. The Great Reformation, which took place between the 1300's and the 1600's, brought about great changes in western religion that resulted in a split among Roman Catholics. At that time, Luther and many others didn't agree with several Catholic practices, one of which was the buying of 'Indulgences' - which basically meant that a man who committed a sin could go to a local priest and 'buy' forgiveness from him by paying a fee. Luther believed that man could only receive forgiveness through God's grace, not his wallet. Little did Martin Luther know that when he protested this common practice that he would forever change the face of religion.

People take things that others will rely on, put their love and faith in, and time, and manipulate it for their own cause.

But me personally, being a former atheist, know (not believe) that man made religion. But theres one that stands out amonst all of them. And if the government or men made christianity, then why is it that it was banned and outlawed, frowned upon, heavily persecuted, men, women and children are murdered in China today for their faith in Jesus. If religion is supposed to bring order then why is christianity heavily shunned?
I'v seen photographs of Christian children from China that have been beheaded and heads stuck to stakes displayed in public view. But its ok even here in america to be anything else other than christian. As we have adapted to many pegan culture with easter, december 25th, holloween, etc, its forbidden to display and punishable to jail time and or being sued to display the 10 commandments. We have to justify by laws and change a few laws to accomadate everyone else.

Your right, they use religion for power. In true Christianity, God commands us to be humble, not to boast nor brag, not to show off. But to be a servant, obey the laws of the land and not to be rebellious. In this religion it teaches modesty. You will find people wearing sack clock while being humble and modest.

On the other hand many other religions such as catholics parade in the streets wearing robes of gold and fine linen, and practice commandments and judgements that are not even written in their own book. Have secret sect's in a government mannor.

[Wolkkkk]

I personally believe that Lenin is Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Buddha, Jesus, Abel and Kain.

[freetibet]

people do use religion for power though

I'd say people use organized religion for power. Since telling people about jesus, buddha, confucious, etc doesn't really give you any power till people start asking you for your interpretation and pay you to tell them about it.

People use just about anything for power though. I even know cases of people using charity organizations for power. That doesn't mean we should stop giving money to the poor though does it?

[Wolkkkk]

Most of the things people make up: Like religion, hatred towards something, something that unites us and most of the things that people can think is for a purpose of control and domination over people.

[GhostExodus]

your right about that. Iv seen thru out the ages Catholic church put a price on salvation and repentance. If you give money to the church your sins will be forgiven. However the real dimmema is that nobody is actually reading the bible for themselves thus contributes to scriptural ignorance. If people knew the bible like they do their rights, then they'd know that the pastor or preacher is lying or not. We are not supposed to give our own interpretation. It interprets itself.

Even many christian churches turned to money and manipulation to gain more money and popularity. Its retarded. Then we wonder why so many people fall away from the true faith and even turn to atheism or other beliefs. If it were that easy to follow another faith, ...

If you ever get a divine revelation of hell, then you'd no matter what know that all men are liars and the word of God stays the same.

[DarrenShanster]

lol, someone google "Lord Reginalds Hero Pattern" and that will tell you all about how Jesus is just a copycat.

f thats not enough proof at least google VMAT2. thats a slap in the face right there.

[GhostExodus]

Thats the exact thing i can't stop stressing is that none of you, (im almost 100% sure) have not even read the bible before therefore can't actually say anything about it other that justifying that the contents inside are merely myths. It amazes me how so many people write books about certain subjects that they really know nothing or very little about. The only way i would ever know anything about a subject is to study it from beginning to end. Then i could use validate its authenticity from first hand experience and not from other peoples perspectives. Because opinions are frankly, quite irrelevant theres a large difference between opinion and fact.

Alot of people say that Jesus was just a prophet. But there's no scriptural evidence or historical remnants that proves that He was "just": a prophet. My mother in law who used to be christian now believes that God and Allah are the same. Yes 'allah means god in arabic" but theres no historical proof. The Co`ran and the actual bible are 2 complete opposites.


(all this is completely irrelevant.)
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
13. And becomes king.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
15. Prescribes laws, but
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17. Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill,
20. His children, if any do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy sepulchres.

[DarrenShanster]

ok so, (and by the way i really liek the response), are you saying you DO agree religion is mythical or you dont? because my head is spinning....

either way, the 11 - 22 rules you call irrelevant are merely variables used in what they call the pattern. Jesus did in fact get 19 out of 22 of them. there was a lits of names on the website at the bottom, of all the people prior to or after our imaginary friend Jesus's life story, that were remarkably similar. most of them exactly similar. Saying you believe in Jesus would be no different than worshiping Horus the sun god. they are one and the same. didnt Jesus call himself the Light, the Son? i think he was refering to the actual SUN. ....friggin copycat.

Horus's probability of existing is about 90% higher than jesus's if you accept these crazy fables to be true.
if i was told Adam and Eves story as a child, id have decided it was no different than Jack and the Beanstalk!

[GaMeRbOt]

The thing is all thru out history, people have been trying to prove and make up excuses why Jesus is a fake and that Christianity is just a self righteous religion. However, by my knowledge there is no "religion" that imposes the command to deny ones pleasures. That the road to salvation and eternal life was walked by maryres who were nailed to crosses, beheaded, given to lions, stoned, torn apart by others, nailed to a cross upside down, heh...

Yeah, most religions are self-pleasure based.
Christianity teaches that you must deny your human impulses. Also the standards that we try to hit are high. They are not human. But can be achieved none the less.

If lusting after a woman is the equal to having sex with her, which is fornication, adultery, and hating someone is equal to murdering someone, a human couldnt not write that commandment. To write for the world to achieve, one must achieve that same commandment.

People desire pleasure. But the bible says our pleasure is not in this life. That we are not to be self exhaulted. But be servants.

Thats denying our natural ego. The fact is, if i wanted to create a religion, i'd want it to be catchy so everyone would get into it. Christianity isnt catchy. Its hard to live, thats why so many fall and then live in their fallen state and show the world around them the hypocracy. Its confusing. But Christianity isnt confusing at all. Those indaviduals carry a spirit about them, they themselves are confused and it spreads like cancer, confusing others.

All through* out history, fut the shuck up! Christianity is a self righteous religion created by a self righteous Jew that thaught he was the "Son of "God"". I pitty the followers of that biased religion, although all religions are biased in some manner or another. Religion is optional, why do you indulge yourselves in this balderdash?
Ever read Foxx's Book of Mayrters? (I spell it right class?)

[GhostExodus]

Sun and Son are not the same things. We know what the SUN is, and what a SON is. There is no historical evidence pointing out that the egyption sun god is Jesus and vice versa. The prophecies that Jesus would come to the earth was over 4000 years ago. (or around that time) Horus is egyption and Jesus was a jew. One has the head of a falcon and the other is God who came in the body of a man. God in the first parts of genesis says when He created mankind He created adam in His image.

I know for a fact that we will never agree on this. People have been debating this for 2000 years and counting. And people in general still will never agree on it. Which is ok. Its the beauty of free will heh... Not all religions are based on those principals but alot of them do have the same "idea" like paradise, shangrala, heaven, and of course the weirdo's who think they are going to govern their own planet with over a dozen wives haha

[Deetinator]

Not to mention those words are English, which was not the main language in egypt or palestine.

Darren and Gamerbot, are you all going to supply actual proof?

[freetibet]

no matter how much evidence you show people like gamerbot will always believe its some sort of conspiracy to enslave mankind via religion or some bs like that.

[ramalamafafafa]

Heh, chirstians demanding proof.....