If there is a god why is there bad?

[Ghostfacekiller]

The answer is really simple if you think about it. Ever played the sims, if you have you have put the sims in a room full of couches and fire places or you have put them in a pool then took the ladder way. As your sim burned or drowned you laughed your ass off. If we are created in gods image then he must do the same. even somthing as building a house of cards, when your done you knock it down.

[superflysuperwhite]

i donjt think it's that.. i think it is just because the univerese is so volitile and "god" isnt going to sit there and try and protect every frigin thing out there.

i mean really alot of stuff can be avoided.

like if you build a nice house and a tornado comes and blows it away. now hey shit happened rights, doesnt mean itll happen twice, But it does. so you have 1 of two options build another house or move.... most people tend to do the one that makes least sense.

[Miss_Minx]

If you are a believing christian than you will realise the whole free will thing. What's the point of giving someone life but making it perfect, It gives you nothing to do or strive for. Life would be pretty fucking *****g if you didn't have to work for anything.

[freetibet]

I don't think this question can be answered in one thread.

Anyone genuinly interested, which would be about 1% of the site, could read C.S. Lewis' book the problem of pain.

[Kasnia]

The answer is really simple if you think about it. Ever played the sims, if you have you have put the sims in a room full of couches and fire places or you have put them in a pool then took the ladder way. As your sim burned or drowned you laughed your ass off. If we are created in gods image then he must do the same. even somthing as building a house of cards, when your done you knock it down.

The reason that there is bad if there is a god is because god stated that he wanted to give us free will. The choice to do good or bad.

Although, I admit I do laugh when my sims catch on fire. Lol.

[Ninja]

But free will only explains why people hurt others. "Evil" also exists because we interpret events as bad (is taking candy from a kid bad, or is the mother saving him from obesity/malnutrition/cavities?) and because events have both positive and negative effects (a freezing winter kills people, but also kills insects that would ruin crops)

[celebration2000]

There is evil because adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge, apparently (im an atheist)

[katt]

Why? Because, originally, there wasn't anything bad, and then god got bored.

[celebration2000]

I the garden of Eden, God gave Adam and Eve one single rule to follow : don't eat from the tree of knowledge. But they did, and god punished us with mortality, disease, pestilence, and shit like that.

[AlbertWesker]

If you are a believing christian than you will realise the whole free will thing. What's the point of giving someone life but making it perfect, It gives you nothing to do or strive for. Life would be pretty fucking *****g if you didn't have to work for anything.

Except for love.

[Ninja]

jw here. was eve sinning when she ate the apple? because i thought that she made it possible for people to sin BY eating the apple. So if she couldn't sin before she ate it, she wouldn't have eaten it...

[JohnLennonII]

Eve wasn't the start of evil (according to the Bible, which I don't believe).
Lucifer was the start of evil, or, you could argue, that God allowed evil to happen through Lucifer.
Hence, God is responsible for evil.
Anyway...
The idea of there being bad things in the world is not logically contradictory to there being a holy God.
As people have said before, free will is necessary in order to have true love.
If I am forced to love, what kind of love is that?
CS Lewis' works are incredibly informative in these situations.
The Screwtape letters could shed some light... also the Great Divorce.

[samanthalynn6790]

Eve wasn't the start of evil (according to the Bible, which I don't believe).
Lucifer was the start of evil, or, you could argue, that God allowed evil to happen through Lucifer.
Hence, God is responsible for evil.


You are somewhat correct. I had the unfortunate experience of going to a Baptist school in which I learned several things about the Bible that I do not care to know. Lucifer was jealous of God, he tried to overthrow him. So God said you can be just like me in your own little place and he gave Lucifer hell. It is generally interpreted that God allowed evil for the sake of defeating it. Something I don't necessarily understand, but it's the Bible, what's there to be understood?

[JohnLennonII]

Sure, it's a confusing document, but there is value in learning from it.

[gheox]

becouse good can t exist without evil , if evil would not exist how would u define good , not knowing evil? , it s the same thing as dark and light they can t exist one without other

[drsteeze]

God was not responsible for evil he created free will therefore it was the persons or entity's fault that they did wrong,

[GhostExodus]

There is "bad" because Adam & Eve. The curse to all mankind and the earth itself.

The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to till it and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, ‘You may freely eat of every tree in the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.’ [Genesis 2:16-17

Before the eating of the fruit, everything was sublime. Then after God cursed the earth and put a number of years on mankind, yaddah yaddah. Then following after that, was jealosy, murder, rape, etc. etc. The whole reason Jesus had to come was to redeem mankind from our sinful birth and sinful ways of life. We brought evil, because of choice.

[Wolkkkk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biy59ULd0lk

[skittleskitten]

okz, well Lucifer was god's brightest angel and he was not jealous of god, Lucifer argued with god over freewill, Lucifer held the notion of free will so highly, that he argued such impure creatures such as people did not deserve free will, thus the argument was set and Lucifer did battle in heaven, having lost his battle he was cast down into the pits of hell, a place designated for the last possible salvation of a soul, and of course for all concepts of reality to us hell can exist for pure torture with no hopes of salvation. it is here that Lucifer, Satan is giving his own chance at salvation, as god is ever merciful and will always allow one to fulfill salvation. you see Adam and eve always had free will, and Lucifer had lost his battle before they ate the fruit at the garden of Eden, Lucifer chance at salvation is to prove his argument correct, so Satan amasses his army of demon followers and fallen angels in hell where he makes plans to test the evil of man to reveal an answer he would be pleased with. it is why satan fiends so feverishly to tempt you towards evil, not that he is evil himself, god would never create an "evil" being, and an angel is certainly not evil.

as for why is there evil? perhaps god wishes you to choose to worship him, and the only thing that could ever be so destructive enough to ever draw a soul from worshiping god could only be defined as "evil". reality though, god is always seen as being a positive force of holy nature, the christian god in particular being very intolerant of evil notions. the idea of Satan as an equal opposite to god is absolutely ludicrous. the reality is simply that if youre born on this green earth and know even the slightest bit about humanity, youre bound by a contract to prevent evil as much as possible while still living life, the threat of being thrown into the pits of hell is a scary enough threat for all to take serious heed. god is amazing, anyone who has ever loved god will tell you that, life may not always be amazing, but god is. even if the apocalypse sweeps this presumably young earth those that truly love god will fear no evil and brace the fires of destruction without fear of evil. take it from me , i was once an atheist and now have a very strong faith and belief in god, and will probably always be very anarchy driven

[Jolly Rogerdodger]

Eve wasn't the start of evil (according to the Bible, which I don't believe).
Lucifer was the start of evil, or, you could argue, that God allowed evil to happen through Lucifer.
Hence, God is responsible for evil.
Anyway...
The idea of there being bad things in the world is not logically contradictory to there being a holy God.
As people have said before, free will is necessary in order to have true love.
If I am forced to love, what kind of love is that?
CS Lewis' works are incredibly informative in these situations.
The Screwtape letters could shed some light... also the Great Divorce.

Alright. Well lets see here... Lucifer betrayed, because of gealousy (he had free will you see, as did the angels i believe) so God cast him from the gates of heaven. When he fell, he decided to seek vengance on what he believed was the initial starting point of the reason he fell: humans. (and, keep in mind, god did not stop him directly, for he had free will) so he turns into a snake and decides to tempt ol adam and eve into disobeying Gods word. They did, God punished them by punishing humans (much like an instructor will punish an entire class for the acts of one individual) by banishing them forevermore from the graces of the garden of eden. Now pestilence, murder, theft, and all these bad things happen because of the devil, and his ever growing anger and gealousy toward humans.
I basically just gave u the technical veiw of this based on the Christian faith. I dont want u sayin "no thats not what happened" nor do i want u sayin "thats exactly what happened" because it all boils down to the fact that simply, noone "knows" for sure. Choose to believe this or not. I was just replying to his question based on what he was asking about: the Christian belief of why evil is in our midsts.

[Palmer]

Hahaha, what a cliché question.
If you are religious, God doesn't just allow it to happen... It's Lucifer, the exiled angel, and the loss of faith in God that allows it to happen. ;)

@ Jolly Rogerdodger, it wasn't because of humans, it was because what he though the starting point for humans should be- like you said.
Learn how to spell the word "jealousy."


and lastly... to everyone else;

ADAM AND EVE ARE (were) NOT REAL PEOPLE!!

It's a symbolic story, not prototype human testing. =/
get your facts straight.

[TotalAnarchyUK]

You are one of my favorite god lovers palmer :D

But you do know that a large amount of christians are what we like to call, bible literalists.

Although you might have the brains to understand that 99% of the shit in the bible is nothing more than a story, not everyone does.

[skull]

personally I'm A Unitarian, but if there was a War between Catholics and Satanists, you'd see me shooting at both sides.

[xxxzz]

IF there is a god. which in my opinion there isnt, just something someone made up to fill the void in their life or answer or explain unanswerable or unexplainable things.

[RubySyntax]

If I do recall there's a branch of Christian called 'Calvinism' that believes that God is just an asshole playing the SIMs. Picks favorites and all.

Humans eat apple > God says GTFO > We get hit with pestilence, disease, and 4chan.

But why would God make the apple eating in question occur, if he controlled Adam and Eve during the time before they snacked on them thar forbidden fruits.

[pancakes]

ok i got a good way to explain this personally i don't believe in god but that's your choice
ok any way to get to the subject god represents what is good and perfect but yet there has to be an opposite wich is satan. why? because this is what proves god to be good because satan does "evil" things so it then gives us things compare on what is good and what is bad.
so in other words you cant have good without bad because you would have nothing to compare on what good is or what bad is.

[Jolly Rogerdodger]

I like apples.

[Menevin]

I like apples.
Seconded.

But seriously, god and the church, in my opinion are just something to fall back on when you feel helpless. For example;

You'r brother falls into a lake, he cant swim and you can.
You dive in and save him

You'r brother has cancer
You pray to god that he survives

If praying could save someone from cancer, shouldn't praying be able to save your brother from drowning?
Its a waste of time if you actually want to do something about your predicament, but if theres abseloutely nothing you can do about the situation, praying is just a way of comforting yourself with false hope.

[alucard621]

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
~Epicurus

[Palmer]

Seconded.

But seriously, god and the church, in my opinion are just something to fall back on when you feel helpless. For example;

Not necessarily...
Not every religious person feels helpless.
Does that mean people only feel helpless on Sundays and sometimes on Wednesdays at 7:00 PM, because that's when church is open?
People go to church because they want to.

Your examples suck ass by the way.
If someone is drowning right in front of you, you have the power to save them yourself (unless they are morbidly obese, in which case you can only try).

If someone has cancer, what are you going to do?
Dive in the cancer that they are in, and pull them out of the cancer which is so blatantly surrounding them?
Yeah, not exactly...


But why would God make the apple eating in question occur, if he controlled Adam and Eve during the time before they snacked on them thar forbidden fruits.

God didn't make Adam and Eve eat an apple... please read my last post...
Adam and Eve is a story, of how people do wrong and can have an effect on how other people act... and if you really want me to, I could go into a lot more detail.

[alucard621]

the solution is simple. watch religulous. discuss :P

[Palmer]

I was hoping someone would ask what I meant about Adam and Eve so I could rant... :(

[mgerman16]

There is no good and evil, just like there is really no light and no dark....it is all how we percieve things....and our relative position or point of view. Meaning this....the Genesis story is adam eating of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil." As the story goes of course, Adam,only after he took the fruit, had self-knowledge that he was naked. Before this, he had no guilt. Why? Because he only knew good. He had no knowledge of both.
So the story is about the birth of human conscience. But Conscience based on what? Well....the "natural law" as Paul states in Romans. Even for those uncivilized bastards in history who never had a speck of divine revelation.....these still have a conscience, and their conscience either justify's them or accuses them. So what they does it accuse of? There is the natural law that we cannot get away from (ie...like murder is bad). But that is our viewpoint. It is bad because we could be killed indiscriminatly or we could kill and face retribution. So it is bad.......but not intrinsically. To say that would be saying that there is a higher power. (And while I beleive that here it would be too long to post a response - see "The Cathechism of the Catholic Church" and read the book of Romans in the bible to see how Christianity has parsed this question.

Free will = choice. Bad is relative.

A man once died and went to heaven. He sat all day at the side of God and sang psalms. Another man once died...but he went to hell. He sat all day at the side of God and sang psalms.

Our outlook....like space and time, is all relative.

[skittleskitten]

its because even God likes to watch TV, and that's all you are, fucking TV people, so fear god and be entertaining, uv seen TV before, that means get injured and run into shit all stupid like. it means get into heavy heated romances of complete uncertainty, it means fucking off at work under the threat of being fired.

if life were nothing but perfect fuck offs, god would get extre***y pissed off, there would be nothing for HIM, and he is ALL important for without him you COULD NOT exist. so eat your american idoit stew u fucking green day sissy bitch, and let god have his entertainment.

[TotalAnarchyUK]

its because even God likes to watch TV, and that's all you are, fucking TV people, so fear god and be entertaining, uv seen TV before, that means get injured and run into shit all stupid like. it means get into heavy heated romances of complete uncertainty, it means fucking off at work under the threat of being fired.

if life were nothing but perfect fuck offs, god would get extre***y pissed off, there would be nothing for HIM, and he is ALL important for without him you COULD NOT exist. so eat your american idoit stew u fucking green day sissy bitch, and let god have his entertainment.

Your gods a pussy.

[skittleskitten]

I wouldn't call god a pussy, rumor has it hes a really angry guy.

[xDarryl]

God hasn't proven his existence and people have a thing called a brain, people get off on bad things.

[Sionyx]

God hasn't proven his existence and people have a thing called a brain, people get off on bad things.

I have a better explaination. Evil isn't an entity but rather an absence. Just as there is an absence of light or absence of heat, there is an absence of good.

[Startdigging]

thats pretty good, like no such thing as cold, no such thing as evil