Proof of God?

[_K_]

NOTE: This is not a rant about religion, nor is it an attempt to convert anyone. It is simply my speculations about the nature of an all-knowing all-seeing being that exists beyond our plane of existance.

Let me first get one thing clear: I am not Christian. I am not Jewish. I am not Muslim. I am not Buddist. I am not Athiest. I simply do not beleive in religion. This means that I believe that attempting to listen to, or please a being that you cannot prove exists is a waste of time. I also believe that arguing to people that there is no god is a waste of time. If you have any problems with this statement, or consider this offensive, stop reading now.

I often wonder about questions that have no answer, and recently I have been thinking about this one: Is it possible to prove God exists? Most would say no, simply because they have heard it all their life. I however, do not accept that answer, and have come up with some ideas.

Let me first start with some holes in the existance of God:
1) God is a man-made idea. Therefor, he cannot exist.
2) The belief that god created the earth in seven days is wrong. The earth was formed over 4 billion years of weathering and shaping by nature;
3) This is perhaps the biggest: how can a being that lives and exists outside of the plane of space and time affect what happens in it?

Now, let me offer some arguments:
1) God is a being that lives outside of time, so one day in his life is equal to about 800 million years.
2) Some say that nature is god. Therefor, God fits in with the theory of evolution, as he shaped animals and beings over a period of several million years.
3) Every religion believes in the one God. They simply call him different things.

Now, my proof:
Many ideas have been taken as complete and total truth, yet later on proven to be false. These ideas arise from human nature, more specifically, the need to answer all questions. This is how theories such as "the world is flat", or "the universe revolves around earth" were created. However, one question that arose fairly early is "where did we come from?" If you look at history, polytheism lasted for a short amount of time, whereas monotheism has stuck. This is the question:

Is there something keeping monotheism from dying out? Is there really a being that exists, and that is why belief in God has not diminished?

Please, discuss. I will offer some explinations that I have thought of later.

[Durandal4]

Many ideas have been taken as complete and total truth, yet later on proven to be false. These ideas arise from human nature, more specifically, the need to answer all questions. This is how theories such as "the world is flat", or "the universe revolves around earth" were created. However, one question that arose fairly early is "where did we come from?" If you look at history, polytheism lasted for a short amount of time, whereas monotheism has stuck.
Please, discuss. I will offer some explinations that I have thought of later.

I've never thought of that before, very nice.

Now that you mentioned it, it is a good question. Mayans (or Aztecs, I can't remember which) believed that the Sun was a god and that it offered its power that allowed nature to grow. Also, there were the Egyptians that believed in their gods but within time these religions faded as science and technology advanced.

Even with our technology as it is, we have no hard evidence that there is a holy being controlling the earth. Why is it that God's existence still considered even though we have quickly disproved many others. It may be that people are afraid to think of themselves as truly independent and require some type of guidelines to base their principles off of.

[Spyre]

There obviously isnt a big guy in the sky that control everything and bible stories arent 100% historically accurate, but I think that there is some sort of thing that god represents, like some sort of force or something in the universe. Something had to make the first atoms or the big bang, but I dont think we can find out exactly what it is in any of our lifetimes.

While hating everyone that worships your god a little bit differently is really fucking ignorant, saying that nothing exists beyond science is kinda ignorant too. Something had to start it all and somewhat plan it out. And by the way, polytheism was around for way longer than monotheism. It goes back to the stone age and shit.

[_K_]

"And by the way, polytheism was around for way longer than monotheism. It goes back to the stone age and shit."

While I do not argue with this statement, I was more or less referring to the time when science was discovering new theories and technology. Around the time when the Greeks and Romans' civilizations began. (and/or the eastern civilizations)

[techtiger]

ahh i have posted the same stuff over and over about this, and i swear there has got to be like a million an a half topics on this subject..... the idea of "god" is simply to explain things humans cannot.... why does the sun rise? you ask someone a few thousand years ago every knew it was a charriot god... well we look at that no and laugh cus we can prove otherwise. all christianity is simply bull shit, and the people havce formed an airtight religion, anything that you cant explain they say because god did it, any thing that you can prove wrong they say its a part of gods plan and we are not supose to know yet, anything we creat they say god gave us.... its a well thought out lie is all it is

[_K_]

BLASPHEMOUS HETHEN!!!

... just kidding...

[exial]

You have some interesting beliefs K. I do agree wit a number of things you wrote. But then i think about your words, and they sound a bit like the words i used when i first questioned religion, and the existence of god. When i first started to question religion i warred against its teachings and beliefs. Thinking anyone who wasted there time on believing such utter nonsense was living a lie. But then i studied the religions around me and i noticed that what religion represented was what mattered. Most of the holy books that exists here on earth are guidlines on how to live a peaceful and respectful life. The teaching are what matter. You also said that all religions follow the same god but they worship him differently. I also agree. But one day i read a piece of text in the Holy Quran and it went something like this "You believe what you believe, and i believe what i believe." Most wouldnt look twice at those words. But they opened a door, that had been closed to me for a while. I stopped warring at the religions that i saw all around me and i came to accept that people needed religion. they needed a firm foundation to place there beliefs. It gives humanity purpose and direction on how to live a respectfull, and happy life with our fellow brother and sisters, and the earth. To treat all people no matter their class as a fellow brother and sister. Not to kill, not to go against your better judgments. And i see the efforts at peace religions represents, despite the current strife between religions today i see the attempt. An attempt to bring fellowship and harmony that binds all humanity together. This is what religion represents. Despite the religious fanatics that give religion a bad name. I also question the existence of god. But i see that there is a grand purpose, a big intricate purpose that binds all life together into a complex and intricate web. And when you see a beautifull sunset or a beautifull garden try to think of this natural beauty as a representation of gods oness with all life. Think instead, "God didint create this beautifull world, God is this world, all natural life that exist here on earth is all part of the oness that is god." He is part of all the natural beauty you see in life. He is all life. Its a different way to see god. But i think why seperate our god to some hovering, feared being far away in space. Think instead of god as being part of this beautifull thriving world. And when you open yourself to the world around you, you get a glimpse of the total beauty and perfection of this world. You see that we are just part of this huge world and our existence is part of something big something soo vastly intricate and complex that we soon see all life as being part of this picture, from the tree or the competitive life that pedator and prey undergo. You see its all part of the bigger picture. Our life here on earth is part of this intricate web of life. We simply have to open ourselves to this oness. Once you find it within yourself to truly appreciate the reverance of life then we as a thriving species can move forward. We can evolve to what we were destined to become. Once we as a species can work together and not against each other, and to stop warring with this world. Its time to change the way we live, the way we eat, and the way we treat each other. And you can see that the way we are living isnt working. We are living against the earth, and against each other. Its time to stop fighting the world. Its a battle that if continued will destine us to certain doom. I do question the existence of god, but i dont question the purpose of reigion. For i see that religion represents universal goodwill for ourselves, our brothers and sisters, and the world that provides us with life. And the earth that our bodys will eventually become.

[techtiger]

i can agree with a good chunck of that, no doubt that alot of the rules laid down by religion is simply a good way to live life, some of them have been taking the wrong way now... for instance no sex till married.... yea back then that was a great idea... cus as soon as they bled they were married, where to fuck a girl that hasnt even hit puberty is just wrong but we are getting married latter and latter in life now so thats just a stupid fucking rule.

[Spyre]

Yeah I agree with the first part of what exial was saying. Religions arent all complete bullshit, just because some guy didnt find 2 of every single animal species in the world and somehow fit them on a boat doesnt mean religions are dumb and pointless. Without religions, we would never give two fucks about anyone else. There would pretty much be no law or justice and the human race probably wouldnt get anywhere. We wouldnt be able to maintain civilizations and shit. But about the everyone coming together and moving on as a species, i would love if that was possible, but I think that right now we are just going downhill into a dark age or something. Theres just too many bigots out there for peopel to stop hating and killing eachother like dipshits.

[techtiger]

true story

[itismesaj]

NOTE: This is not a rant about religion, nor is it an attempt to convert anyone. It is simply my speculations about the nature of an all-knowing all-seeing being that exists beyond our plane of existance.

Let me first get one thing clear: I am not Christian. I am not Jewish. I am not Muslim. I am not Buddist. I am not Athiest. I simply do not beleive in religion. This means that I believe that attempting to listen to, or please a being that you cannot prove exists is a waste of time. I also believe that arguing to people that there is no god is a waste of time. If you have any problems with this statement, or consider this offensive, stop reading now.

I often wonder about questions that have no answer, and recently I have been thinking about this one: Is it possible to prove God exists? Most would say no, simply because they have heard it all their life. I however, do not accept that answer, and have come up with some ideas.

Let me first start with some holes in the existance of God:
1) God is a man-made idea. Therefor, he cannot exist.
2) The belief that god created the earth in seven days is wrong. The earth was formed over 4 billion years of weathering and shaping by nature;
3) This is perhaps the biggest: how can a being that lives and exists outside of the plane of space and time affect what happens in it?

Now, let me offer some arguments:
1) God is a being that lives outside of time, so one day in his life is equal to about 800 million years.
2) Some say that nature is god. Therefor, God fits in with the theory of evolution, as he shaped animals and beings over a period of several million years.
3) Every religion believes in the one God. They simply call him different things.

Now, my proof:
Many ideas have been taken as complete and total truth, yet later on proven to be false. These ideas arise from human nature, more specifically, the need to answer all questions. This is how theories such as "the world is flat", or "the universe revolves around earth" were created. However, one question that arose fairly early is "where did we come from?" If you look at history, polytheism lasted for a short amount of time, whereas monotheism has stuck. This is the question:

Is there something keeping monotheism from dying out? Is there really a being that exists, and that is why belief in God has not diminished?

Please, discuss. I will offer some explinations that I have thought of later.

I will offer this in defense of religion. Humans simply cannot comprehend an all-(insert verb here)ing God. It'd be like teaching quantum physics to penguins. So, people try their best to explain God.

[techtiger]

or we can simply look at it and say oh hey we have science to prove alot of things instead of having to say god did it

[itismesaj]

Religion and science are in two different domains. To try to disprove religion with science would be like trying to disprove art with science. You just. can't. do it.

[numerator-91]

so by using science we can't disprove: that the earth is 6000 years old, or that we all descended from two nudists living in a garden, or that the earth is flat, or that a giant chariot pulls the sun across the sky, or that there's no such thing as a micro organism. strange, they could've fooled me.

P.S. you can't disprove art with science because that statement is illogical and meaningless.

[techtiger]

thank you numerator

[exial]

What are you thanking him for?

[frankenstein]

Alright this pisses me off people always say that without religion their would be unmoral people FUCK YOU! i am extre***y moral and none of it came from religion it came from seeing others go hungry and in pain. you have no basis for that claim its utter bullshit. its called empathy.

Religion is separation you speak of people joining but with religion it will never happen. their are people who freak out over little things like fortune tellers and stuff. getting violent saying it the devils work. and this might not be the majority (which i am not convinced of) but their are always those people who latch on so hard to such beliefs. and teach their children while shielding them from evidence contradictory because it is the devils work of corse.

but i care not i know religion is destined to fail. it will take time and our leaders seem intent to prolong it. but it is inevitable. my fear then is those minds that are to weak to understand real world application over fantasy. more extremists wanting to rain in judgment day. and they could very well make it a self fulfilling prophecy with nuclear arms.

[exial]

empathy you say...If there was no religion what purpose would people believe in. If everyone didnt have a classified belief and everyone was athiest you think The world would be a better place? Without religion you think people would have any guidlines "Principles" direction to lead there lives. Think about it like this: take a million people, and leave them leaderless. Im not defending religion frankenstein im just saying their is a good reason religion exists, and why it is needed in present day society. And if you think that these people should instead not follow religion what will they believe in? Will they all be searching for the truth?

[_K_]

There are some very interesting perceptions here...

I said I would post some of my explinations later, so here they are:

People are always looking for answers. No matter how much you say you do not, you are. Humans are always looking for "truth", it's just how we are. Now, here is a good question, what happens when we are presented with two versions of "truth"? There are many factors that affect this, but the main one is simple: the simpler/easier one. Accepting that there is a god is a lot easier than having to explain sub-atomic dust gathering and condensing into planets and lightning causing self-replicating atomic structures that over time developed into simple, reproducing archaebacteria. So when science is challenged, the answer we have to give is "I have no idea", whereas with religion you can simply say "It's God's plan," or "God only knows."

Religion is all about human nature. A great example of this is in the bible, it says that "God created man in his image". Really, it's the other way around, we created god in our image. Ancient people would hate it if God wasn't shaped like a human! This is also the reason why Zeus, Athena, Aries, were all human.

The purpose of religion is obvious: early judicial systems. Human police are easy to fool, however an all-seeing all-knowing police is impossible to fool. Hell was a way to keep people in line a long time ago. However, it also brought people together, as the dark ages were virtually ended by religion. I do agree, religous extremists have given it a bad name, but you can't argue that the crusades were carried out by only a few people... (I'm not even going to discuss Satanism.)

[exial]

Thats the problem with your words _K_. You are stating them as facts. As things long thought of and theorys that you believe to be absolutely true. You have some interesting beliefs, but i will not adopt them as holding any real relevance in the real world. Remember that what you know is simply what you think you know. Everything that you have founded all your beliefs upon will all collapse under the right words. So have the pre-cognition that at any moment all your beliefs and well thought of theorys can at any moment collapse, under the right words. For the wise man knows that he doesnt know. And the fool thinks he knows what he doesnt know.

[frankenstein]

i believe it is, "the wise man knows that which he dose not know" not that he knows nothing. for if i were to recite a line of shakespeare you would have to give me that i know that line, but knowing that line dose not mean i know all of shakespeare.

yes i believe that if people did not have religion they would look for truth in the world and find out the mysteries of life. instead of living in a world of superstition we would be in a state of intellectuals all examining facts.

and i am not saying religion was built as a bad thing but people turn it into that. no not all but enough to effect the world negatively. which i do believe it was designed to control the population, give them rules that they could not disobey because they were given by the most high the controller of your after life. which may have been necessary back then but in todays world i believe we have enough history filled with role models and horrible people that we can evolve morals and a way to act with out a fairy tail about satan and hell.

[deathlord888]

so by using science we can't disprove: that the earth is 6000 years old, or that we all descended from two nudists living in a garden, or that the earth is flat, or that a giant chariot pulls the sun across the sky, or that there's no such thing as a micro organism. strange, they could've fooled me.

P.S. you can't disprove art with science because that statement is illogical and meaningless.

exactly

you can disprove religion so easily.

if some one wrote a book saying i could fly would it be true? no
so why is the bible?
just because it was a book written does not make it true

[Spyre]

You can say the boy who cried wolf is bullshit because it never happened, but that deosnt change the lesson. You can say 300 is bullshit because it isnt historically accurate, but that doesnt stop it from kicking ass. What im saying is that you can easily disprove religion with science, but that has nothing to do with the real meaning. Religion gave people hope and morals, which science can't do. While religion can't cure diseases or end world hunger, it makes people happy and kind to eachother and all that shit.

[deathlord888]

science makes me happy

[exial]

Religion gave people hope and morals, which science can't do. While religion can't cure diseases or end world hunger, it makes people happy and kind to eachother and all that shit.

Yes, so we see the two are entwined. Religion cant exist without science, and science cant exist without religion. They support each other despite that they war with each other.

[itismesaj]

so by using science we can't disprove: that the earth is 6000 years old, or that we all descended from two nudists living in a garden, or that the earth is flat, or that a giant chariot pulls the sun across the sky, or that there's no such thing as a micro organism. strange, they could've fooled me.

P.S. you can't disprove art with science because that statement is illogical and meaningless.
Religion is wrong when it tries to explain how. As I've stated many times, religion's purpose is to explain why. Science cannot do that. It takes philosophy to do that, and when philosophy explains God, it is called religion.

You can't disprove art with science because that statement is illogical, yes, but not meaningless. I used that statement because the statement "science can disprove religion" is also illogical. All three of those things - science, art, religion - answer different things.

You are basing your arguments on early humans attempts to explain what couldn't be explained. They took all those things that couldn't be explained and grouped them with something else that couldn't be explained: God. Over the years, most of those things that couldn't be explained now have explanations, but God doesn't. Because it can't be explained by humans. Going back to my first post, it would be like explaining quantum physics to penguins. I'm sure you could teach at least a little bit with concentrated effort, but to teach them more than a minute amount would be fruitless.

My point is that religion tries its best to explain the fundamental question why. It fails, miserably, many times, but it simply takes a concentrated effort.


exactly

you can disprove religion so easily.

And that is where you are wrong. Science was not created to disprove religion. It was created to explain what religion cannot. And that, above all else, is the explanations of how things happen. Religion must never do that. If it does, it is wrong.

[System Of Dread]

In order to attempt to prove that “God” exists, one must prove that life exists.

Everything about human life coincides with how people interact with ones perception of that life. We, as people, made our own languages, religions, and morals. If people had formed a language to reverse the terms “god” and “science”, would anyone be able to disprove science? Reality is a key state or mind for an individual and once that individual conforms to an accustomed set of rules and life the reality changes. Nothing is, can, was, or ever will be. By this basis “God” cannot be proven and neither can these forums or any of the people who are associating with it. Life does not exist because it is an immaterial fragment of existence. Nothing can exist without something/someone else knowing of its existence.

To sum that up, if you didn’t want to read it or were just confused, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it then the tree doesn’t make a sound In order to attempt to prove that “God” exists, one must prove that life exists.

Everything about human life coincides with how people interact with ones perception of that life. We, as people, made our own languages, religions, and morals. If people had formed a language to reverse the terms “god” and “science”, would anyone be able to disprove science? Reality is a key state or mind for an individual and once that individual conforms to an accustomed set of rules and life the reality changes. Nothing is, can, was, or ever will be. By this basis “God” cannot be proven and neither can these forums or any of the people who are associating with it. Life does not exist because it is an immaterial fragment of existence. Nothing can exist without something/someone else knowing of its existence.

To sum that up, if you didn’t want to read it or were just confused, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it then the tree doesn’t make a sound because it doesn’t exist without a base(in this case a person) to reflect its being.

By the statement above the “morals argument” used prior is irrelevant. If people held cannibalism as accepted then not eating people could be considered a crime.

And in reply to the post above: Science was not created to disprove religion or explain what it cannot. “Science” is a way of categorizing all existence into a group created by humanity in order to appease our inner nature. This rule is enforceable for language, actions, and all beliefs that are held by any one being.


LIFE IS A COLLECTION AND STORAGE OF RANDOM INCOHERENT DATA THAT ONLY MAKES SENSE WHAT WE DECIDE WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO WITH IT.
because it doesn’t exist without a base(in this case a person) to reflect its being.

By the statement above the “morals argument” used prior is irrelevant. If people held cannibalism as accepted then not eating people could be considered a crime.

And in reply to the post above: Science was not created to disprove religion or explain what it cannot. “Science” is a way of categorizing all existence into a group created by humanity in order to appease our inner nature. This rule is enforceable for language, actions, and all beliefs that are held by any one being.


LIFE IS A COLLECTION AND STORAGE OF RANDOM INCOHERENT DATA THAT ONLY MAKES SENSE WHAT WE DECIDE WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO WITH IT.

[Spyre]

well that was a weird ass post.... you stated everything twice in a row, was that on purpose??

anyway, i say everything that is made of atoms or is proven to do something exists. Obviously you never left your basement if you do not think life exists. There are things called plants and animals that are proven to be alive.

If people had formed a language to reverse the terms “god” and “science”, would anyone be able to disprove science?

im sorry, but thats the most retarted thing i have ever heard. Obviously no, because if that was true, then science means religion, but if those words have never been reversed. Thats like saying "If the words pizza and book were reversed, then would you be able to read pizza?" Nice try on trying to post a thought-provoking question, but it is really more simple than "Does 3 + 3 = 6"

By the statement above the “morals argument” used prior is irrelevant. If people held cannibalism as accepted then not eating people could be considered a crime.

Cannibalism isnt accepted and it doesnt benefit mankind. Getting along with other people is what got us past being animals.

Sorry for being an asshole, but that whole thing was completely devoid of any intelligent thought whatsoever.

[frankenstein]

its funny numerator showed that science can disprove religion, if more facts get reviled about life. because those sarcastic things he stated we have proven. religion are the text that were written, you disprove that which they state as facts and you disprove religion. and kind of like saj stated philosophy their are your morals you dont need a religion. saying religion is the only place morals come from is idiotic. philosophy and religion their is your competing factors not science. science is a system of knowledge examining knowable facts. religions is more in the realm of lord of the rings fantasy but we can say for the sake of believers that it is in the realm of philosophy. philosophy examines intangible facts and religion is an intangible idea.

and system of dread your statement was fucking lackluster empty and extre***y *****g to read. reverse the term god and religion well then all that would be different is the term we use not the subject matter. if a tree falls in the woods it still produces sound waves just because you are not their dose not change the fact that we live in a physical world. if you leave a wind mill alone on a windy day and when you go back to it will there have been energy produce yes yes your observation did not change what was happening. ones perception of the world may change but the worlds rules do not.

so my main point is to exiles statement that religion and science is intwined. your wrong because you can put in philosophy over religion or maybe something else. their are more than just science and religion and you can add something to replace religion for people to obtain morals. however science can not be replaced because it is examined facts. and that is knowledge.

[System Of Dread]

[QUOTE=Spyre;189282]
anyway, i say everything that is made of atoms or is proven to do something exists. Obviously you never left your basement if you do not think life exists. There are things called plants and animals that are proven to be alive....

Cannibalism isnt accepted and it doesnt benefit mankind. Getting along with other people is what got us past being animals.

I meant to imply that while these things do coexist and funtion as they are supposed to with atoms and animals and all life, we are the ones who decided what things are. Before anything was named or decided things just were a huge mass of everything(which is the same as having nothing). Until someone or something decides to catagorize these things they have no meaning(the atoms and animals are still there but they don't matter because nothing else is there to know it): We create what is there by giving it our own names.

To the cannibalism comment: I stated that it wasn't accepted in my long speech above, but some places and people used to practice cannibalism openly. Just because we think it is morally wrong that doesn't mean that it is. And I didn't even mention animals or how we were like them, although if you want me to I would be happy to oblige.

[itismesaj]

I meant to imply that while these things do coexist and funtion as they are supposed to with atoms and animals and all life, we are the ones who decided what things are. Before anything was named or decided things just were a huge mass of everything(which is the same as having nothing). Until someone or something decides to catagorize these things they have no meaning(the atoms and animals are still there but they don't matter because nothing else is there to know it): We create what is there by giving it our own names.

By using that logic, one could assume that life began when people started to categorize things. Which is completely illogical. Things were around before humans; that much is certain. Stating that there was no matter is unfounded bullshit.


its funny numerator showed that science can disprove religion, if more facts get reviled about life. because those sarcastic things he stated we have proven. religion are the text that were written, you disprove that which they state as facts and you disprove religion.
No, you disprove a part of a religion. You don't disprove religion.

[exial]

whats the damn point anyway? Disprove or approve wont make a difference anyway.

[frankenstein]

ok well science has disproved religions no not all, yet. the sun god, the god of volcanoes, and all that shit, now we can state with science why those things do what they do. so the belief system is gone, proven wrong.

and well you can say that if a part of the bible is proven false the rest is still true but that clasping on to it in my view.

[System Of Dread]

[QUOTE=itismesaj;189544]By using that logic, one could assume that life began when people started to categorize things. Which is completely illogical. Things were around before humans; that much is certain. Stating that there was no matter is unfounded bullshit.

I'm not saying that they didn't exist before us. I'm saying that they didn't have a function or a purpose before we decided to label what it was. They Existed The Whole Time.

[WEENIS]

God touches me when I sleep

[Spyre]

ok well science has disproved religions no not all, yet. the sun god, the god of volcanoes, and all that shit, now we can state with science why those things do what they do. so the belief system is gone, proven wrong.

read my god damn posts. just cause religious stories arent true doesnt stop them from having a meaning or a lesson. Religion has many other functions besides trying to explain shit. In fact, the people who wrote the bible probably knew the stuff they wrote wasnt true, but that doesnt make it bad because, like i said in pretty much all of my posts on this gone-to-shit thread, religion helped mankind. Science can disprove religion easily, but it cant change the true meaning.

[numerator-91]

read my god damn posts. just cause religious stories arent true doesnt stop them from having a meaning or a lesson. Religion has many other functions besides trying to explain shit. In fact, the people who wrote the bible probably knew the stuff they wrote wasnt true, but that doesnt make it bad because, like i said in pretty much all of my posts on this gone-to-shit thread, religion helped mankind. Science can disprove religion easily, but it cant change the true meaning.

i agree with you their. the stories of any religious text are to be taken with a grian of salt. read them and see past the basic prose and look for a deeper meaning

[deathlord888]

i personally think the bible was basically a book of values


if you dont sin you are basically a good person and no one wants a load of people going around killing each other

[frankenstein]

ok spyre i dont know why you think this tread went to shit. maybe i dont get the way you all like to use a form, just to beat each other off and talk shit? i thought it turned into an interesting tread from a *****g one..... what you are saying may have a minute amount of validity but not allot. the bible states that if a girl gets raped in a city that she and the rapist is to be stoned to death! If it takes place in the country then she is to spend the rest of her life married to the man that raped her!
now i know their are morals other places in the bible but their are also more things that are not very moral. and that book is not necessary to create morals with every other book we have available now. which was a main point.

but to your point, the story of david and goliath might mean to you that good can conquer evil if the good has faith. but to many it means that their was a small kid who killed a giant with a rock because god affects are physical world.

and to system dread your second post was interesting to read so i take back the *****g and empty comment. but an animal might not have been defined before humans were around but that is not what gives them meaning. the act of living that is the point of life and that is what they did and you do not need to be defined to live. however a man would kill a deer or a rabbit or what ever just because we are human and it is not so to them your point holds, as to say that humans are the only thing that gives things meaning. however i fundamentally disagree with that logic.

[Spyre]

This thread went to shit for me because I have to post the same thing 4 times because people keep posting the same thing about how religion is so bad, and when I post that, most people dont say shit back and try to at least prove me wrong. Im kinda glad you posted because that actually continued this debate.

the bible states that if a girl gets raped in a city that she and the rapist is to be stoned to death! If it takes place in the country then she is to spend the rest of her life married to the man that raped her!

Well its better than no one giving a shit and girls getting raped all the fucking time. If the rapist had to get married to the girl he raped, it would suck ass for the rapist, and it would be extre***y awkward. Yeah stoning the girl would be cruel, but, like i said, its better than no one giving a shit.

i personally think the bible was basically a book of values


if you dont sin you are basically a good person and no one wants a load of people going around killing each other

Thats the exact same thing i was saying. You are right that science can disprove religion, but the facts dont mean shit.

[deathlord888]

science can and has disproven religion on numerous accounts

[Spyre]

No shit you can prove parts of religion wrong. All im saying is that theres more to religion than people trying to explain things. You can prove "god didnt make the earth in six days" wrong, but you cant prove "love thy neighbor" wrong.

[Kasnia]

No shit you can prove parts of religion wrong. All im saying is that theres more to religion than people trying to explain things. You can prove "god didnt make the earth in six days" wrong, but you cant prove "love thy neighbor" wrong.

Because "love thy neighbor" is something of moral value. It has nothing to do with science at all. The reason that religion is as "powerful" as it is with people is because it's all about faith. You can tell them how this didn't happen, and how that didn't happen, but you can't disprove God (at least, as of right now) so there's no way that you can disprove their faith.

[Spyre]

my point was in all my repeated posts that no one fucking reads is that you can disprove religion with science, but it doesnt change the true meaning and religion overall helped mankind.

Im not religious tho, i already posted my views on god in this thread too.

[Kasnia]

my point was in all my repeated posts that no one fucking reads is that you can disprove religion with science, but it doesnt change the true meaning and religion overall helped mankind.

Im not religious tho, i already posted my views on god in this thread too.

Sorry for not reading, it's just that people tend to post the same shit over and over. I skimmed over it, and came to the last page.

[deathlord888]

how has religion helped man kind?

ever heard of the crusades or holocaust?

those were big helps...

[_K_]

If you have ever taken a history class, you would know. In the dark ages, after the fall of the Roman(or Greek, I don't remember) empire, people were left to fend for themselves. No government to help them, they were living on a day to day basis. After a while, churches were established, where the people went and prayed after a long day of work. Eventually, the people moved and villages were built around the churches. Skipping a lot of *****g history, societies emerged around the churches, and people were doing specific jobs, and had more free time. Eventually the printing press was created, and the bible was the first book ever to be mass produced on a printing press. Religion revived civilization in the western culture. It didn't do it alone, but it played a large part.

"Nothing can exist without something/someone else knowing of its existence."

Interesting point, but we are talking about existance, not perception. However, using this logic, God does not exist. If we cannot know of God's existance, then he cannot exist. But if he does, then what evidence do we use to prove it, which takes us back to the root of the thread:
Proof of God.

[frankenstein]

i read all your posts but every time i was on their were allot to reply to and yours did not seem as important. because your statement was true that you cant get ride of the meaning of boy cry wolf. however you can change its placing from non fiction to fiction.
and exile was stating that with out religion no one would have morals and i found that extre***y controversial.

now if you wanted to marry a girl and she refused you all you would have to do is rape her extre***y bad for her but not as bad for you. its better than no one caring maybe but i dont think that they did not care in that time. and this is law that was passed down by god so this is something fanatics still believe as right. which is to say yes good came from those books but bad did as well. and it is still alive in todays world.

it is true that religion has helped the world it gave an outlet for organizing. all the major US civil rights movements started in churches. gandhi i believe he was inspired by the different religions. and their are good morals and bad morals in them. but intodays society we do not need it anymore which we may have needed it in the past.

[exial]

Hmm. Nice change of tdiscussion. We "Technically" have no evidence of the existence of God. Only Blind Faith. But Instead of trying to Prove the existence of God, lets instead try to understand what God is. How do we view god, and what part does he play in our lives. For us to understand something we first have to recognize it. See we-(Humanity) all basically worship the same god, but we worship Him differently. So Lets first explain what god is then we can go about proving the existence of this divine being we were all told to believe in. We werent told what god was, only that we had to blindly follow "Him".

[_K_]

I was just about to post that "We as humans cannot concieve of such a being, that exists beyond our current realm of existance", but that is the most common answer. Penguins cannot concieve of the solar system, but it exists. I've heard this answer, and I like it: God is the sum of all conscious thought. We are all a little peice of God. Aside from the spiritual perspective, it would also explain why we have prophets, like Jesus and Muhammed. They are a slightly larger peice of God.

[exial]

so your saying that god is everything., and that every speck of life that exists here on earth is nothing more than a tiny part of god?

[Spyre]

I think god simply represents the unknown

[exial]

That doesnt really support the whole "understanding god" post..

[Spyre]

i never said i could understand god, i just repeated "religion has a deeper meaning that cant be disproved by science" over and over again. I think its impossible to understand god because god represents what we cant understand. god can be anywhere from a big guy in the sky to a force that created the first atoms. I guess this might not agree with what i said earlier because i change my theories on a daily basis

[frankenstein]

a penguin cant understand the physics of space but it can look up and know their is a sky. so do you see god because everything i see i try to understand and the penguin dose not that is the difference saying that we just cant see when we already understand the physics of our world is asinine.

stating that god is all thought is saying it was gandhi and hitler!
exial you keep calling "god" a him that seems kind of main stream! and you think we have to know god but i doubt gods existence so its a blind search.

[_K_]

"stating that god is all thought is saying it was gandhi and hitler!"

Yes. It is. Who said God is infinitely good? Hell, he spent the first years killing people!

I never said the theory was accurate, I said that I like it and it explains a portion of God's power. That is more than any other theory I know of.

Let's look at it from a different perspective: God is an idea. A symbol. By themselves ideas and symbols are meaningless; it is people that give them power. And what if that power did more than convince people to kill someone they know nothing about, or help someone they know nothing about? What if that power created something that exists: A God. Here's a question that will make you think: would God's "power" dissapear if nobody believed in him, or knew that he "exists"? (To clarify: I use "exists" in the meaning of human knowledge. If nobody knew the meaning of the word "God". I also use "power" in the sense of what people now use it, as in "it is God's will", or "God made it happen")

Let me say it differently. What if by believing in God, we created it/him/her?

[Spyre]

I guess ill refer to god as it from now on. Anyway, deities are symbols. theres no heaven or hell or angels or demons or titans or any of that shit. Like i said before, god represents the unknown. Since people didnt know what made the world, they thought of a supernatural being, like a god. You can say the monotheistic God, as in the guy in the sky, isnt real, but religions represent much deeper shit and if you say the unknown isnt real then u are literally retarted.

[frankenstein]

something scientific like the birth place of stars its unknown, but i believe it will be found out. but god is a theory i just cant give dominance not even a high up theory. i think it is pretty vain of humans to believe that every thing had to have been created by something intelligent that still effects the world. the only question that leaves a intelligent creator as an idea of possible theories is evolution. when two of the same birds on different islands have different beaks because they have different food supplies i have to wonder is their something in between changing their code or at a sub conscious level do they do it themselves for their children..

[exial]

yeah frankenstein good point. God is nothing more than a theory. Like every other theory it is unprovable. Their is no way to prove that god exists. So this thread is a contradiction to itself. For how do you prove a theory? _K_?

[Spyre]

It really depends on what you mean by god. Do you mean the monotheistic God, and intelligent being that control the universe while not existsing in the universe, or just the unknown something that made the big bang? The first two are theories but the last one is just that something had to start it all.

[exial]

no im talking about "The God" that is everything and created everything. The guy everyones looking for for answers. That god.

[_K_]

yeah frankenstein good point. God is nothing more than a theory. Like every other theory it is unprovable. Their is no way to prove that god exists. So this thread is a contradiction to itself. For how do you prove a theory? _K_?

Theories are provable. This is why they are called theories. A theory is a hypothisis that is proven correct time and time again. After a long time, theories become laws, unless they have a deeper force that is still unknown. Newton has three laws of motion. They are called laws because we understand them and they have been proven time and time again. Gravity is a theory because if you jump off a roof, you fall; we can clearly see it happen. However, it is not a law because we are unable to determine what causes two objects to attract eachother, and why mass determines the strength of that attraction.

To say that God is a theory is not accurate. God is a hypothisis. All hypothisies(spelling?) are testable, we simply have to find out how to test it, which is the point of this thread.

And frankenstein, exactly what did you mean in your post about two birds on two islands having different beaks? Could you clarify a bit?

[exial]

thanks for the correction.

[frankenstein]

well that is the basis for darwins belief of evolution. he had i dont remember off the top of my head it was between 3 and 6 (i think) of the same bird similar in every way except beaks. and when you looked at what they eat one had a long beak to fit down a long flower one had a hard beak to break open nuts and so on. and i believe the birds were located on different hawaiian island.

spyre you walked into a contradiction you see in order for a god to start it all then it had to have always been their. so did something have to start god? which leads to the question what did god come from, and it cant be turtles all the way down. which means something always had to have been, a supreme being or a self replenishing primordial atom.

the law of gravity i believe i have read that in a few physics books. it is a law. you are completely right on your point except with the gravity thing. but proving something is different than disproving something. now i believe the bible can be disproved (excluding the moral vales from the stories) but the stories as facts can be rebuked. but god along with the flying spaghetti monster it cant be disproved.

[numerator-91]

your talking about Darwin's finches on the Galapogas islands

[TotalAnarchyUK]

Millions of people have been killed because of their religion or in the name of religion. The tiny good religion does cannot top that.

[Spyre]

Religion stopped the dark ages, formed civilizations, started laws, created order, united empires, and gave people hope and reasons for suffering. I think that makes up for all the lives lost because of it.

Also, yeah something had to make the something that made the something that made the universe, so it keeps going back, but it is unknown, which is what i believe god represents.

[frankenstein]

religion was the cause of the dark ages when they burned books and killed people as witches. stopped the dark ages......

[Spyre]

The fall of the roman empire caused the dark ages. barbarians and vikings burned those books and killed people.

[itismesaj]

science can and has disproven religion on numerous accounts

OH MY FUCKING GOD. (Pun intended)

I just said that you can disprove a religion when it tries to explain how events occur, but you cannot disprove religion when it explains why events occur.

[_K_]

@Frankenstein: I understood that, but you said something about the birds subconsciously changing their code or something. I just wanted to know what you meant.

And gravity is a law? Everytime I hear about it it's "The Theory of Gravity". Maybe that's just because I'm studying history... Either way, my point remains valid.

[exial]

Religion stopped the dark ages, formed civilizations, started laws, created order, united empires, and gave people hope and reasons for suffering. I think that makes up for all the lives lost because of it.

Also, yeah something had to make the something that made the something that made the universe, so it keeps going back, but it is unknown, which is what i believe god represents.

They also started wars, were the cause of the collapse of empires, and poisoned the minds of the people. So yes that is true. But its yin yang, theirs good, and im sure the good outwieghs the bad, not counting the dark ages.

[frankenstein]

well when you mate you pass down your genetic code maybe at a subconscious level are body wrights the code we pass along. as for things we had trouble doing in our lives and did allot all that collective data makes children more adaptive for those things. just a thought (i am no geneticist)

as for the dark ages i read allot on it because i thought i knew what it was but i was thinking of a different time period i thought that is what they called the dark ages. so i was wrong.
however in what i read the reason they called it the dark age was because of lacking in christianity and it had little advances in technology and buildings and what not, however it did not say their was anything bad about that time just unproductive. it also did not say religion pulled people out of it, oh thought even if they did it did not sound that bad anyway!

[c73]

Let me first start with some holes in the existance of God:
1) God is a man-made idea. Therefor, he cannot exist.
2) The belief that god created the earth in seven days is wrong. The earth was formed over 4 billion years of weathering and shaping by nature;
3) This is perhaps the biggest: how can a being that lives and exists outside of the plane of space and time affect what happens in it?

Now, let me offer some arguments:
1) God is a being that lives outside of time, so one day in his life is equal to about 800 million years.
2) Some say that nature is god. Therefor, God fits in with the theory of evolution, as he shaped animals and beings over a period of several million years.
3) Every religion believes in the one God. They simply call him different things.


Alright, I'm going to be that asshole that everybody hates and probably restates half the shit that other people have already said. But, I'll do it with some style and grammar :) Haha. Now, these are just my opinions, they are not fact, they might be wrong, but it is what I think.

First, to tackle the age question that pertains to number 2 in the top section and number 1 in the bottom. The Bible states that God created the earth with age. I really don't feel like taking my time to search and site the specific passage, but if you really want to argue with me, find it first then bitch. The Bible also states (2 Peter 3:8-But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.) that a day is Like a thousand years to the Lord, but it doesn't state that it Is a thousand years. Because God does live outside time and space, he has been here forever and will remain forever; therefore, time is of no matter to God, he has been through it all so it all appears so fast. So, it all did happen in normal 24 hour days, God is omnipotent, he can do it all.

Also, dealing with questions 1 and 3 of the top section. God is not a man-made idea. Man is a God-made idea put into reality. A being that lives and exists outside of the plane of space and time can affect time and space because he created it and watches over it.

Fitting in with question 2 on the bottom, just looking around, with all the intricate and complex items we have in our universe, a theory based on chance seems... eh, unintelligent. Nature shows that there is a creator or "higher being" out there. A nature-God is not a bad theory; the founders of our Country believed in a Nature-God that created and then left us alone. Read the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson states the Nature idea in the very begining and uses the term Creator instead of God.
I still don't believe in that though.

That's all I have to say on the subject. Obviously, I'm pro-God.

[frankenstein]

god is omnipotent meaning all knowing not all powerful oh thou to create everything you would assume all powerful.

first line of bible. in the begining their was the heavens and the earth and the earth was void and without form, not aged. their for your statement that he created a earth that was already aged has no ground to stand on. in fact all of genesis states god creating it as new.

[c73]

god is omnipotent meaning all knowing not all powerful oh thou to create everything you would assume all powerful.

first line of bible. in the begining their was the heavens and the earth and the earth was void and without form, not aged. their for your statement that he created a earth that was already aged has no ground to stand on. in fact all of genesis states god creating it as new.

Oh hey dumbass before you start slinging insults get your facts straight. I didn't assume shit. I know shit. Omniscient is all knowing stupidshit.
om·nip·o·tent
–adjective
1. almighty or infinite in power, as God.
2. having very great or unlimited authority or power.

Stupid ass. Get a dictionary or four. Don't try to fuck with me over words.

And as for the age statement, was Adam created as a infant? Was even born from Adam as a infant? No, they would not be able to survive had that happened. God created things with age in the begining.

Now go buy a goddamn dictionary.

[numerator-91]

zing .

[exial]

Alright, I'm going to be that asshole that everybody hates and probably restates half the shit that other people have already said. But, I'll do it with some style and grammar :) Haha. Now, these are just my opinions, they are not fact, they might be wrong, but it is what I think.

First, to tackle the age question that pertains to number 2 in the top section and number 1 in the bottom. The Bible states that God created the earth with age. I really don't feel like taking my time to search and site the specific passage, but if you really want to argue with me, find it first then bitch. The Bible also states (2 Peter 3:8-But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.) that a day is Like a thousand years to the Lord, but it doesn't state that it Is a thousand years. Because God does live outside time and space, he has been here forever and will remain forever; therefore, time is of no matter to God, he has been through it all so it all appears so fast. So, it all did happen in normal 24 hour days, God is omnipotent, he can do it all.

Also, dealing with questions 1 and 3 of the top section. God is not a man-made idea. Man is a God-made idea put into reality. A being that lives and exists outside of the plane of space and time can affect time and space because he created it and watches over it.

Fitting in with question 2 on the bottom, just looking around, with all the intricate and complex items we have in our universe, a theory based on chance seems... eh, unintelligent. Nature shows that there is a creator or "higher being" out there. A nature-God is not a bad theory; the founders of our Country believed in a Nature-God that created and then left us alone. Read the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson states the Nature idea in the very begining and uses the term Creator instead of God.
I still don't believe in that though.

That's all I have to say on the subject. Obviously, I'm pro-God.

Interesting view you have.

[c73]

Thanks Numerator :)

And Exial... Interesting view? How so?

[frankenstein]

ok i looked it up your right i have herd allot of people including an english teacher say it meant all knowing. my bad.

if everything was created with age how can you follow them back? an infant can not survive on its own in the garden of eden wow i thought that place was supposed to be a paradise i was wrong their too. ok i must be really bad at this language thing. void and without form. yet if it was aged it would have form and it would not be void. or maybe i dont understand what form or void means.

oh and to be clear i own a dictionary! i just dont use it much as the literary world is filled with people who believe they are intellectuals but will never really give anything back to the world.

[c73]

ok i looked it up your right i have herd allot of people including an english teacher say it meant all knowing. my bad.

if everything was created with age how can you follow them back? an infant can not survive on its own in the garden of eden wow i thought that place was supposed to be a paradise i was wrong their too. ok i must be really bad at this language thing. void and without form. yet if it was aged it would have form and it would not be void. or maybe i dont understand what form or void means.

oh and to be clear i own a dictionary! i just dont use it much as the literary world is filled with people who believe they are intellectuals but will never really give anything back to the world.

Whatever the fuck your last statement means... I have no idea.

And as for Eden being paradise... yeah it was but that doesn't mean an infant could feed itself. A place being paradise does not reflect on the abilities of the humans living inside of such a place. I'm sure God could make it happen but that is not what it says in the Bible.
And void and without form, yes, it does say that. But right after that it says God started adding things, dur.

[exial]

Thanks Numerator :)

And Exial... Interesting view? How so?

"God is not a man-made idea. Man is a God-made idea put into reality."
I really like that statment and i agree with it, I have always thought that god was a man made idea, yet that is naive, Man is a god-made idea. Well put.
You also wrote that 1 day may seem like a thousand since god isnt bound by time. "A being that lives and exists outside of the plane of space and time can affect time and space because he created it and watches over it." A very interesting belief, and i do support it to an extext, but if god was the creator of all, and exists outside of time and space, then how was god created. He has always existed? I cant wrap my head around that one. And i do consider the possibility that the truth of how god came to be may just be beyond my mortal understanding, but how then can i support that statement without doubt?

[techtiger]

I cant agree with that statement... because throughout history religions come and go.... but what it all boils down to is its someone or something to explain what humans cannot

[deathlord888]

I cant agree with that statement... because throughout history religions come and go.... but what it all boils down to is its someone or something to explain what humans cannot

ya that is basically it
i am guessing in 1000 years a new religion will reign supreme

[exial]

Yes. The Islamic religion will fall, The Christian religion will fade away, and new religions will spring up from the ashes. So basically this armageddon that religious people are waiting for wil end up to be a natural calamity, that will probally destroy the human race. And the world will once again go through a purifying stage, where time cleans up the oceans, and the air, and humanity will once again dominate the earth with the chance of righting our mistakes. But that is just a theory. For all i know, humanity will reach the stars. Who knows.

[_K_]

"And the world will once again go through a purifying stage, where time cleans up the oceans, and the air, and humanity will once again dominate the earth with the chance of righting our mistakes."

... That is... really just... wow. That's biblical-movie epic.

@c73: Thank you. I was waiting for a pro-god person to come and argue the other side. I like that "Man is a god-made idea" statement. I was wondering when somebody would say that. Now, I noticed that you used the word omnipotent (however you spell it...). I have a problem with that. I understand that "God is all-powerful", but I can sum up your entire argument with one sentence: "Because God wanted it to happen." You just used bigger words. Now I understand the "babies in the Garden of Eden" bit where babies cannot survive on their own. I like that because it uses facts to support a claim. Now, I have a request: Support the existance of God with facts, not faith.

[exial]

thanks. And how do you plan of proving the existence of god with facts anyway? Is it even possible?

[c73]

See thats where I can't do anything to prove God. I could use the Bible and passages to drive my point of God existing home, but you would say humans wrote the Bible so how could it possibly be real, they could have lied; however, every theory against God was also created by men who could also lie, therefore we are in a standstill in my eyes.


"God is not a man-made idea. Man is a God-made idea put into reality."
I really like that statment and i agree with it, I have always thought that god was a man made idea, yet that is naive, Man is a god-made idea. Well put.
You also wrote that 1 day may seem like a thousand since god isnt bound by time. "A being that lives and exists outside of the plane of space and time can affect time and space because he created it and watches over it." A very interesting belief, and i do support it to an extext, but if god was the creator of all, and exists outside of time and space, then how was god created. He has always existed? I cant wrap my head around that one. And i do consider the possibility that the truth of how god came to be may just be beyond my mortal understanding, but how then can i support that statement without doubt?

That's whats so crazy about God. Somewhere in the Bible, engraved in my mind from too many years of forced christian schooling, it says that mortals are not able to understand God. It is impossible. We are not omniscient therefore we cannot understand the workings of an omniscient being, that's why it's called faith :)

And thanks for liking my "Man is a God-made idea put into reality" statement :)

[Raditude]

I am a Christian.

Sometimes I start having my doubts, but I am reminded time and time again that there is a higher power, by one thing.

When I tithe (give 10% of money made as offering) I am blessed. I don't make a lot of money, and don't always have food, but when I tithe, then things start happening. I find work, people donate food, etc. Usually when I tithe, I get almost too much food for me to handle.

I don't know the exact scripture, but when you pay your tithe, you'll receive it back 7-fold or something like that.

Seeing this first hand proves to me there is a higher power working, and since it's documented as being God, and it's God that I'm giving the money to, then that makes God real.

[numerator-91]

your paying the church?

[Raditude]

I pay my tithe. That money is then used for missions, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and more. Like I said, when I pay my tithe, I get money/food in return at least 7-fold. It's like Karma or something.

[frankenstein]

yeah the thing that they dont tell you about them feeding the starving, is they only do it to those willing to convert!

[Raditude]

yeah the thing that they dont tell you about them feeding the starving, is they only do it to those willing to convert!

Not necessarily, because I know some atheists who go to church food pantries all the time. CBN gives food to Islamic children.

[superflysuperwhite]

yeah the thing that they dont tell you about them feeding the starving, is they only do it to those willing to convert!

that is so unbelievably wrong.

i dont think ive put my two cents in here yet.

me? i believe in a "god" but not religion. i cannot believe that humans can know exactly what an omnipotent being wants, especially when a majority say that "god" is beyond human comprehension, if thats so HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT WANTS!!!! the human mind itself is beyond human comprehension.

but heres my view of "god" its not a big old dude in the sky, nor is it a big old chick in the sky.

i see "god" as a force, a thing that can create and destroy, it is the ultimate conciseness. it exists outside the plain of existence, yet it exists in everything we know.

i believe it has always had a plan for the universe, not in the sense of a final outcome but what it wants out of it. I believe it created the big bang like a firework. it put all the right ingredients together and new exactly how it would come out and what would happen. It however does not dictate what goes on because it created the universe to do that itself, it created laws which we call science, like a video game programmer creates rules for a game like you can go through every door in the game stuff like that.

as for the whole heaven and hell thing. i believe after you die you enter a new state of consciousness and are no longer bound by the physical laws of the universe because you no longer physically exist. "god" does not judge you by your religious belief and what not but just how you act. like if you kill someone its bad, why? because we did not create life so who are we to take it, i believe as long as you do not harm others your fine in that part. as for belief i believe that even atheist go to "heaven" as long as they truly believe in being an atheist and have come to the conclusion there is no "god" by actually trying to figure it out and not just saying "fuck it there's no god who care" and not even think about the possibility.

[frankenstein]

ok well i live in state of mormons its probably not fair to compare their religion with others. but they only help those willing to convert. and i know this because when i was growing up my friends family fail on hard times and then all of a sudden they started going to church. and other things i have seen in this state. but my statement was probably out of line as the only religion i know dose it for sure is the mormons.

[magicalmerf]

Proof of god?

No, if their was their would be no reason to doubt it.

[c73]

This is just getting dumb now.

[exial]

yeah i agree. it has lost its spice. i honestly believe that god is unprovable. Making this thread a bunch of nonsense since the purpose of the thread was to prove god existence. Since that is impossible this thread is now dead.

[OhShitNigga]

George Carlin sums up God and Religion pretty much the best way you can.
http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

[magicalmerf]

No one can sum him up! THEIRS NOTHING TO SUM UP, the only evidence is NOTHING. religious wars, and arguing is POINTLESS. IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE ANSWER SO BADLY KILL YOURSELF AND YOU'LL FIND OUT.

[Spyre]

well magicalmerf kinda killed this thread with pointless flaming

i see "god" as a force, a thing that can create and destroy, it is the ultimate conciseness. it exists outside the plain of existence, yet it exists in everything we know.

i believe it has always had a plan for the universe, not in the sense of a final outcome but what it wants out of it. I believe it created the big bang like a firework. it put all the right ingredients together and new exactly how it would come out and what would happen. It however does not dictate what goes on because it created the universe to do that itself, it created laws which we call science, like a video game programmer creates rules for a game like you can go through every door in the game stuff like that.

Thats exactly what i said when this thread first started. Thats my view of the Creator.

God is different though, you guys can disagree im not making you agree, but all this since my last post still supports my theory on the monotheistic "God" in that he represents the unknown. What is faith? Belief in something that there is no physical proof of; which means that its unknown. Everything god represents is what we dont have proof of, like what made the universe and what happens when you die.

[magicalmerf]

but it was true flaming, its like thinking your smart because you have a theory but no one is closer to the truth.

[mistikman]

That's right. There's no proof I exist.

[exial]

Yes their is no proof that i exist either. Our life is nothing more than a figment of our over active imagination.

[hydromonster]

well i sent a message to cha cha (text them any question in the world and they will answer it for you) and they said that their is a 67% chance that God exists based on some 200 year old formula

[Guitarmstr1948]

I would recommend the movie Zeitgeist which is a movie all about religion. It is very factual but somewhat long and annoying. watch this ten minute clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeEX-M7rHAc and let me know what you think. It argues Jesus Christ also. as for me i believe in the idea of religion but do not have a set one because they all suck.

[hydromonster]

i watched alot of that movie
you get a wierd feeling listening to it
and then i noticed the bass sound coming from it (i have bose speakers) and it was a light smooth thumping sound
and all i could think about after that is that they were trying to hypnotize people lol

but it twists a bunch of stuff in the bible to make it sound worse like refering to Gods son(Jesus) as being the actual sun

but back then they spoke a diferent launguage so its not very likely that both words sounded exactly alike in latin or hebrew or whatever they spoke

[007m]

god is real.More than sure.If you research better,you will get proofes.
I cant imagine the life without somebody who can give you hope,when nobody does,and somebody who can help you,when everybody let you down.
Somebody said:"If you belive and He does not exist you don't have what to loose,but if you don't belive and he exists,you are lost."

[Kasnia]

god is real.More than sure.If you research better,you will get proofes.
I cant imagine the life without somebody who can give you hope,when nobody does,and somebody who can help you,when everybody let you down.
Somebody said:"If you belive and He does not exist you don't have what to loose,but if you don't belive and he exists,you are lost."

First I'd like to discuss the last part you said: What's the point in believing in someone just in case he's real? It shows that you're not really believing in him because you want to, you just don't want to go to hell.

Secondly, there is no proof of god. You can't argue with an idea, faith or hope. Some people have given up on god though, because he doesn't give them hope or help them out. People have had some really, really shitty lives for no reason. They've tried to make everything better but they can't. What I don't get is how there can be a god when little children are being raped for no reason, people are getting beat by someone (father, husband, boyfriend, whatever) when they didn't do anything wrong. All of this horrible stuff happens in the world, and when it does people don't say that it's God's fault. They somehow had to bring it upon themselves. But whenever something good finally does happen for no reason, it was god's work. It was a miracle.
And if people don't think like that, they think the total opposite: If something bad happens then it's God's fault, and if something good comes their way then they were the one's to make it happen.


There is just WAY too many horrible things in the world for there to be a god, in my opinion.

[Black Napalm]

I agree with everything you said kasnia.

The rap song "Hope for a Higher Power" by Tech N9ne describes many of my feelings on this issue. I hope there is something, but I need some kind if proof or experience before I'll believe in it. Humans are inheritly afraid of being lonely, so we develop the idea of a all-knowing loving god that has a plan for our lives. It comforts us thinking that it will workout eventually. Yea, religion did help in making morals important, but it did not create them. You could also say that religion cause many wars and massacres in our history. Humanity as a whole has gotten much smarter since those days, so it makes sense that we question those beliefs. If there is something, I hope it is what superfly said. By the way he described it, it is much more believable that an all powerful "being."

Quoting the song:
"so all you christians don't get mad at me
i just hope that your mystical, magical miracle's workin catastrophies"

"I hope for a higher power when i look at all these tragedies"

There is the issue on aliens. Not meaning to stray from topic, but a lot of religions have a problem with accepting that there is life out there. It is more improbable for there NOT to be life other than us. There is no way to comprehend how large the universe is, there may not be an end. Knowing that, how can you say there is no other life?

[007m]

You think the thigs are so simple?You think that in this world,everything is randomly?I am sure that this world is guided by something more superior than us.Maybe you realized that the religion has been used as a tool to control the masses for hundreds of years.The religion has been mutilaited by us,by humans.Why chileds are raped?Beacouse of us.How would be if god intervined in our lifes.We could be like puppets.The god has gave us the right to chose.Even if we admit or not,the world is in a continues falling.We are self destructing.
I dunno if you saw,but now the vatican and the government are slowly perparing us with the idea that the extraterestrial life exists.

Did you ever tought at the possibility that God himself could be an alien?
Think.

[Kasnia]

Not to sound rude, but 007, do you speak English as a first language? The way you put certain things made it hard to understand.


And yes, it could be possible that God is an alien. Then again, it's possible that he's a flying spaghetti monster too.

[007m]

Not to sound rude, but 007, do you speak English as a first language? The way you put certain things made it hard to understand.


And yes, it could be possible that God is an alien. Then again, it's possible that he's a flying spaghetti monster too.

nope,not as a first language...i know my english sucks :)
but i think you got my mesage...
Then again, it's possible that he's a flying spaghetti monster too.
very possible :))

[drugfeind]

well the universecouldnt have come from nowhere right?....like even air and space had to come from somewhere or soemthing much more powerful than science and our human thought processes..maybe we arnt even moving we are "sleeping " thinking everything we do ...or maybe people are one soul with diferent personalities and there is no such thing as space, time and flesh...just some ideas to throw out there

[AvengedX7]

And yes, it could be possible that God is an alien. Then again, it's possible that he's a flying spaghetti monster too.

Nice south park quote Kasnia