Light and relativity.

[RAV]

Ok so I was thinking about time travel when I came up with a question that I did not know the answer to. Is light effected by relativity? Because light does contain photons and so when it is moving it does have a mass but does it have a time distortion, because if it does then the speed of light isn't the speed of light. And a whole lot of cool time travel things can happen.

[31773haxor]

Think about it. Photons act like waves and particles “wave–particle duality”, a photon has no rest mass E=MC^2 mass (restmass is mass traveling extre***y close to the speed of light "C" , it is impossible for anything that has mass to travel at the speed of light, therefore it has no mass, or rest mass)(getting into advanced nuclear and quantum mechanics). when talking a photon mass does not exist. Sure light "C" 3x10^8 ms^-1 but this constant only applys when the photon is in a vacum. the speed of a photon in a gravitational field or a an atmosphere can so marginally slow the photon down.

Hope it helps

[RAV]

No it doesn't because you are a fucking idiot. My friends and I were working on a problem and figured out the rest mass of a photon. And rest mass is mass that is not moving. Because if it is moving then it has mass (this is what E=mc2 means, which is why I am calling you an idiot.) The thing is that the mass of a light particle is so small, even when it is moving at the "speed of light." Which this just shows why I believe that you can go faster than the speed of light, because otherwise you would be dead from the "infinitely massive" photons hitting you. Go figure out how relativity works before you talk to me again. Read a book.

[exial]

lol...rav knows his stuff.

[RAV]

Ya my two career choices in the future are aeronautical/aerospace engineer or theoretical physics. And since I don't have money and or awesome tools to build things I work on theories that I can't do because I can't do theoretical math lol.
But my friends and I are trying to build a Thompson coil that will have the power to kill someone, well we hope so lol.

Anyways I think I came to my answer about the original question, which was part of the process of confusing me. Light is a particle, photon. But light is constant. I think that the constant is the more important issue here.
For example lets say that you run towards light and measure the speed its coming at you. You would measure it at a speed of 3e8ms-1. Lets say you run away from the light. It is still 3e8ms-1. It always exists at that speed.

Well the whole reason that I was asking this question is because of time travel. If light is not affected by relativity then 3e8ms-1 is the speed of light. This means that if you go this speed time stops, which also supports my theory that light is not affected by relativity. So if you go 99% of this speed then time slows down 99% and ect. But since I am someone that believes that you can go faster than the speed of light, because I don't believe in limits, then we come to a strange issue.

Waring: Brain may explode. Read at own risk.

1)Speed is relative to time dilation, meaning the faster you go the further time slows down. As speed increases time decreases. Here is the fun part. By this statement time should never reach 0 or become a negative number, because then velocity would become 0 or negative.

2)If time stops at the speed of light, and there are no limits, what happens when you go faster? The only possible thing that I can think of is that you would go back in time. Could there be a limit?

I don't like limits. There is another problem here though. Think of particle accelerators. They make the particles go near the speed of light. Yet I have never read anything about the time dilation for them.

Any thoughts?

[_K_]

I am not a genius at quantum physics, but I know a thing or two.

Time is based on perception: When you have an adrenaline rush, time seems to slow down only to you. So the faster you go, the less light would hit your eyes in a normal second, the slower time appears to be. However, accelerating faster than the light would mean you see light that you have already seen, and it appears that you are going back in time.

However, when you account for that fact that gravity can bend light, you are leaving my area of knowledge. (If you disagree, research black holes)

Those are my thoughts, not facts.

[RAV]

No you just didn't read what I was talking about. A black hole will also bend time. Yes time. It is not a perception but a reality. Time is relevant to your velocity. The error in GPS is that the satellites are traveling at a higher velocity and thus every couple of minutes their time is off by a second or so, which makes inaccurate data.

We are not talking about perception, though most conversations of relativity are (but not on the basis of what you are talking about). This is because you can actually measure and gather data, where an adrenaline rush will not actually cause time to slow but you to move faster and have better reflexes.


DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!

[exial]

No now im against you RAV. _K_ told you that he knew a thing or two, that still means he can express his opinion. "DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN WHAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND". There are alot of things that i dont understand thats why i get involved. So stop putting people down for making mistakes and instead help them understand. Thats the second time you have put someone down in this thread, and its pissing me off.

[frankenstein]

massive photons? i thought that at the speed of light a objects mass would go up, to a point that it would take to much energy to move it at the speed of light so you could not get it their. not that it would grow in size am i wrong?

[techtiger]

ill tell you what, find a tachyon and let me know how things go... one thing i always found funny, is lets say you travel faster than the speed of light, you could hypotheticaly turn around and watch yourself come

[RAV]

No now im against you RAV. _K_ told you that he knew a thing or two, that still means he can express his opinion. "DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN WHAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND". There are alot of things that i dont understand thats why i get involved. So stop putting people down for making mistakes and instead help them understand. Thats the second time you have put someone down in this thread, and its pissing me off.

what he said was completely irrelevant because it had nothing to do with physics, just biology. Thats why I got mad. (god I know why Num is an asshole lol, if you would like to learn ask me and I will tell you what I know)

Mass and size are two different things. Mass is Kg while size is m. Mass and distance basically. They are sometimes related but not all the time. For example a black hole is specified as a supermassive object that has a small size (this is the universal [stellar and micro])

I will do physic forms on request, actually I'll make a group where I can explain small questions or I can start a form upon request. Being physics I will answer mathematical questions also.

[RAV]

um... It won't let me create a new group. The button is gone from the page.

[georgeforman]

ok Rav it is impossible to go faster then the speed of light and there are so many reashons why. First of all if you are moving in the speed of light and some force pushes you in your direction all of that energy is transformed into mass. Hence E=mc 2 and infinite mass. Now a photon will only increase its mass infinitly if there is an force adding to it. now the sad fact is yes there is a limit to your velocity. and like you said before if you reach the limit and have a time of zero how do you move from there. if space is made up of time and distance then with zero time there is zero space and i dont know what happens but a lot of shit happens.

[RAV]

you know i have found something quite interesting. There is nothing in physics that says that you can't go faster than the speed of light, where in time would travel in the reverse direction. There is, though, laws that prohibit the ability to travel at the exact speed of light. This is because if you traveled the speed of light time would stop. And if time stopped you can't move along the spacetime plane.

Theoretically you can go faster just not at the speed of light.

[itismesaj]

The major flaw in your plan is that, in order to go faster than the speed of light, you first have to get to the speed of light. For instance, in order to go 60 mph in a car, you first have to go 40 mph.

[georgeforman]

Yes i agree that if you do move faster then the speed of light everything points to you actually going back in time, but the problem is you cant make a leap skipping the speed of light so that there is no instantaneous velocity of 3*10^8 m/s. If you accelerate constantly it will reach that numbe and is then imposible to go back in time or have a negative time if you first reach zero time. Also you have to remember that all the force applied to the object will then turn into pure matter creating infinite mass before you can even go anywhere else. so going back in time or going faster then the speed of light would be cool, but not plosible. also back to the original questin if light is made up of matter, photons, then it should be effected by relativity. now i personaly believe the limit is above light, that the speed of light actually approaches the limit because if it was on th exact limit velocity then time would stop for light. so that is why i believe it is decimals slower then the actually velocity for zero time, if not then it probably is not effected i dont know i am still just studding it.

[deathlord888]

it is impossible to even propel a .0000000000000000000000001 nano gram object to the speed of light
once you get with a 1/1000th of a M/S it takes all the energy of a universe to go to 1/1001th and then next time it takes more
given all the energy everywhere you would get incredibly close but never actually make it to the speed of light

massive photons? i thought that at the speed of light a objects mass would go up, to a point that it would take to much energy to move it at the speed of light so you could not get it their. not that it would grow in size am i wrong?

ya you are wrong
the mass does not increase it just takes more energy
so potential kinetic energy formula
Ek=1/2MV^2
if M = 1 always and speed starts out at 1 it does not take much energy
Ek= 1/2(1)(1^2)
Ek=1/2

but when we want speed to be 2 with mass staying the same it is
Ek=1/2(1)(2^2)
Ek=2

so to double to speed it takes quad-ruble the amount of energy

and with 3
Ek=1/2(1)(3^2)
Ek=4 1/2

so for triple speed nine times the energy

so when we get closer and closer it is massive jumps in the amounts of energy needed
so no the mass does not increase just the amount of energy needed does